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Speaker 0: so welcome to our third
Speaker 1: session with honey in the previous session
Speaker 0: we had come two contacts to topics one was to go more into the mechanics of those background loop thoughts that you have identified as being behind the vague feeling of self criticism so as far as i understood you actually when you investigated there were concrete scenes concrete memories that played in a loop in the background of your mind that created those feelings this is what i understood and it was quite challenging for you to to get into the topic or to access those memories which i completely understand because after all the mind is quite busy to block them out anyway
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: so there is a part of kind of your mind that is or whatever reason not really interested to bring these to the surface and then in the second part we i i guess we discussed more pragmatically about how you interact how you show vulnerability how you ask for help and we discussed a few possibilities of how to frame it so that you can be more comfortable to show yourself and to interact with people so that you feel closer to them and you give them a glimpse into how you feel like without overburdening them so this is the memory that i have for those last conversation and today i would like since this is our last session together in this recording series i would like to give you the opportunity to either continue with one of these topics of last time or to put something in the foreground just a priority for you and so that we make the best use for our time today
Speaker 2: okay
Speaker 1: i
Speaker 2: think i've been well i mean it's been a since we last spoke it's been a very hectic few weeks and there's been a lot of different i think situations where where i i mean i'm just not feeling well just overall to say it
Speaker 1: in that sense but
Speaker 2: so as we spoke last time about the memories and the loops and the kind of background i guess story the latest ones because i did try to kinda pinpoint if there was specific ones or what why exactly am i choosing certain loops without i mean i don't it's not conscious but and i guess the latest ones would be because it was my birthday a couple of weeks ago and having having a birthday for me is always very difficult it it's not it it's not a happy a happy day and and so the for the past two weeks after my birthday i think i've been really having a lot of kind of the same looping story and the and it's been about people that i have had close to me or that for instance my last partner or i guess my father who might who didn't reach out to me to even say happy birthday and now this has been very hard for me because i mean i don't think i need to explain why it wouldn't make me feel bad
Speaker 0: yeah
Speaker 2: but it's been
Speaker 1: constant i think questioning of trying to understand
Speaker 2: their their thinking or trying to forgive trying to question also being upset and angry and not understanding and this kind of a feeling or i think questioning or whatever you wanna call it is is just it makes it brings me down every time and i can't get out of it and i'm and i want to and i'm questioning how how i guess what how can i maybe adapt my way of thinking or or say i don't know like what can i do like guys my question that so that i can just move past that or that i don't have such i guess strong feelings coming from that because at the end i cannot control what other people do and i don't want to
Speaker 0: yes
Speaker 2: let it affect me longer than i don't know i i just don't wanna have to like in going on now three weeks having this continuous loop of of the same kind of situation where i just it brings me down and i just feel really really bad and that obviously affects everything else in my life because it makes me feel like i just have no self worth like just feel like if other people can provide such a i think simple thing
Speaker 0: yeah
Speaker 2: and and i'm not speaking out with strangers of course then why i i don't know it just makes me like question me as a person and i don't know it makes it very hard for me to to feel good
Speaker 0: yes so that's quite understandable right one of our all of us one of the main things that we want to experience is to be liked wanted and loved and in the previous conversations we already touched upon the topic that you occasionally feel isolated and you
Speaker 1: you
Speaker 0: feel that the people or that some people around you not don't know you very well and you don't know how to change this and to open up so it it sounded like already you were kind of having difficulties with a lack of authentic connection and closeness and then on top of that you have a situation now that you described where you ask yourself am i that unlovable that those people who for whom it would be just just a decent thing to wish me well for my birthday not even the greatest love or affection but just to say hi just a i don't know as people sometimes do just a random facebook message that takes five seconds literally
Speaker 2: mhmm
Speaker 0: if they don't need to do that and it's not just one person but there seems to be a pattern there's a group of people who should do that just by their status because we work close or with their family or something they don't do that what that cannot be all about them that must say something about me what's wrong
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: me why am i so unlabeled or invisible for them right so it it touches kind of a topic and a theme that would disturb any of us it's unbearable when the when we have a few people that we're really close to right and because then this is where the mind goes the mind if i have three good friends two good family members something like that the mind goes to them and tells itself at least i have them screw those other people i don't need them because i have them but if i have too few of them or the qualities with them is not as i hope i don't have a resting point the mind cannot go to this one place that says at least i have them and this is how this is how i understand your situation is that more or less correct
Speaker 2: yeah i guess that i maybe at the yeah i feel that way and i think it's also i'm wondering why i can't just feel that i'm okay with i guess
Speaker 1: just having me in some sense
Speaker 2: so that i can just feel i guess better and just try to well maybe if i don't understand that's okay just say that if i don't understand how other people behave that's okay but that doesn't reflect on me but it seems to be the other people's behavior yeah it affects me so much that that it kind of shifts my own self worth and confidence
Speaker 1: yes and that is see
Speaker 0: at the same time there's so much truth in what you say and it's so difficult this is what we would love to have everyone would love to have that and to you know so many things that we do in our life the the masks that we wear the careers that we pursue the you know financial means and all of that an important part of that is that we try to secure a lifestyle and a network of people that makes me independent so that i can choose with whom i want to be friends and i'm you know so good at how i come off that of course they want me as a friend or if i want to live in a certain place i can go into this calm peaceful neighborhood calm peaceful city that i like to have those you know inspirations culturally or socially this is a part good part why we're doing the normal things that we're doing in life is to secure this superior position that allows us to choose and to be in the place of agency so many people wish for themselves to be teflon in that sense to be independent to be sufficient and to just reach out to the people that they want to be in touch with but not out of desperation not out of need yeah at the same time this is the most difficult thing to do because when we
Speaker 1: develop when the mind develops it develops an interaction and it develops
Speaker 0: in complete dependence there is no desire or need
Speaker 1: baked into our system
Speaker 0: that can be purely satisfied on my own kind of you know naturally over the centuries we have developed you know cultural psychological means to build something within us that resembles a self reliance you know with
Speaker 1: all those meditation techniques and the relaxation techniques and the self reflection techniques and so on because
Speaker 0: finally we want to get rid of this dependence that we grew up with the dependence on the parents the dependence on you know early friends on the environment in general all these efforts just shows how difficult that is so while i understand that you have the strong wish and this longing for independence it's really an incredibly difficult thing to pull off the people don't seem to struggle with that there are people like we we see them whatever as friends and so on basically they fall onto the category of they don't know what they have they have been given so much in terms of how they grew up what kind of parenting they experienced what kind of you know because of the filed and interact people feel attracted to them so they think that they have a choice in making friends and so on it's what i want to say with that is they have not gained a true independence they are lucky for the resources that they have been given they are not independent
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: it seems to them and many are so confident and they know how to approach people and so on so they had the confidence of
Speaker 1: you know what no matter where i end up if i stay
Speaker 0: in this country in this city i can always make some friends because my experience shows that i have this way with people right what about the people that don't what about if they for
Speaker 1: whatever reason lose their stand lose the capacity and the skill to to attract people
Speaker 0: to catch them and that people for example you know while we are at university many people think that oh social life is easy you just talk to someone and so on and then there is kind of the big shock of when they go into work life maybe they start their own business or they're in some small company or they have to move to another place and suddenly there's the realization oh you know you know that as an as an expat when we move somewhere our first experience is not that the greatest people are looking for me the interesting good people that i perceive as good people they have the the spots taken to have the people so when it comes to those transitions then it occurs to many people oh you know what actually it's not that easy there's another transition point that you know while we're in the same kind of generation when we approach the middle age not necessarily you in this example but other people who have been occupied with family and then the kids get older maybe you know the partner distances themselves for whatever reason from them and they realize oh i didn't actually invest in friendships over the past years so who do i have now and then it might look bleak which again shows how difficult it is to be to have this independence okay so i'm recounting all this i'm i'm i'm speaking about this to make clear how big of a challenge that is
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: to develop a core within myself that is self reliant that allows me to retreat into this place when i'm soft when i'm vulnerable and when i'm weak that situation that you are in right now and as much as i would wish that people would have easily accessible it is one of the most difficult things to pull off
Speaker 1: mhmm what are your thoughts about
Speaker 0: about that when you when you hear me kind of trying to putting it into context
Speaker 2: yeah i think i'm just thinking about maybe then what if it's a big challenge then what smaller things i guess could i do so that it
Speaker 1: so that i'm not
Speaker 2: i don't get so overwhelmed or affect so much of who i am
Speaker 1: true
Speaker 2: because if it's yeah something that's gonna be such a huge amount and to climb and what are the little steps i guess i can do to so that i'm in some sense taking care of myself but obviously i'm not solving the the huge picture if it's if it's you know a hard a hard task
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 2: because i just yeah no no i just because i need to still be present in life and i still need to you know function in some sense and i find that it when i'm feeling this way it really affects so me so much that it's it's just like
Speaker 1: it's really hard to kinda turn it off yes absolutely
Speaker 0: i think that a couple of things to say here there is a pragmatic part actually a part that you know quite well because you have been working on yourself on many levels not just on the super prismatic ones also going deeper yeah so you know this approach and just to kind of recount a few things that you mentioned you you're doing breathing techniques you're doing yoga as far as i remember some sort of meditations positive affirmations something like that
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: so you you have been on this journey and i'm sure there are many things that you have not described that you have done over the years you're familiar with that approach what can add to that is that because this is a an interactional kind of issue a source that gives me grievance that comes from a lack of nice encounters or
Speaker 1: emotionally reliable encounters it would be good
Speaker 0: to have a social thing that somehow at least contributes to fill that gap and what i have in mind is you know when over the years when i reflect on which social groups i interacted with so for example when i went to meditation groups and i'm not insisting on the meditation context i just want to highlight what an interesting quality of that was which is that usually i didn't go out with those people afterwards usually i didn't become friends with them so it's not that it was kind of on the path on deepening friendships usually once a week i went to a place and there were a couple of people ten twelve people but the atmosphere that was there was really positive and i would argue it is positive because people didn't know each other very well mhmm once you get to know each other you understand the quirks you see something they don't like and so on but it was kind of the atmosphere was carried by this benevolence but it's common understanding that you know we gather to do something good for ourselves we want to be nice to each other you know when we speak we speak in a respectful way so there is this artificial kind of thing there that you know everyone is taking a break from their difficult lives but still it felt good and usually i i and the people that i know that i spoke to that left you know such an evening gathering or weekend gathering whatever it was was a with a positive feeling of that was good like everyone tried everyone was nice welcoming and so on so this is what i have in mind and i would like to ask you do you have cycles like these do you have experience with groups like these can you imagine to interact with groups like these just to get you know a sense of well wishes from other people and a positive by the positive style of interaction i yeah definitely in the past i think i have yeah meaning either with
Speaker 2: being with just going to yoga class or i don't know when i
Speaker 1: go to to sing at a choir i'm always left i don't know
Speaker 2: it's such a it's a good feeling and so yeah definitely i can understand
Speaker 1: your your experience
Speaker 2: and and definitely have been there myself
Speaker 0: do you have experience with groups like these where there was not just a common activity like you know singing and doing yoga but that involves also conversations where there's a group interaction so you know in the middle group for example we used of course to meditate that's the majority of the time but then afterwards there was a forty five minute discussion where okay many people had the experience of they said something and then it resonated with others and people would have the opportunity to say oh that's such an interesting observation and this is what i experienced and then immediately i feel you know acknowledged so it's not just that there is an atmosphere but also the conversations kind of the they carry this positive sentiment this positive vibe and i know yoga groups can do that but i i know that many of them are more you know practice oriented so i wonder if if you had something like this
Speaker 2: no not recently mhmm it's been a long time since i've had something like that in a group
Speaker 0: could you imagine that this would be would have a soothing and and a positive effect on you yeah
Speaker 2: i mean as you're speaking i'm thinking about in time when i was in group therapy interesting mhmm yeah that was very it was at first something that i think i struggled with because it was speaking about your own experiences within a group and not being one on one with just a therapist but i think i really benefited benefited from the situation because it was you got to hear so many different experiences and ways of looking at situations or things that i you know maybe hadn't thought about or just i guess
Speaker 1: to just i don't know and they always yeah i did always leave with with a
Speaker 2: sense of connection in that sense i mean in some sense we're bonding
Speaker 0: yes
Speaker 2: yeah
Speaker 0: i can totally see that and i think that there are many contexts institutes places who where something like this is offered it doesn't have to be therapy it can be
Speaker 2: yeah
Speaker 0: workshops for example alright that are right isn't based where
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: people go there to learn a skill but at the same time they all acknowledge that they kind of need and lack what is offered so there's the humbleness there there's the understanding of we're all in the same boat and we see eye eye to eye so i think that this
Speaker 1: is this is something i think there
Speaker 0: is a possibility there to explore you know the the offerings that are around you
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: and to indeed maybe find an author that that provides that because you know what you said is absolutely true people have this on all kinds of context like this you know be church groups or aa meetings or group
Speaker 1: therapy where people gather and and
Speaker 0: they all share this this this understanding of we're all flawed we kind of share an issue or you know a topic that we like and so we don't denigrate we don't criticize we we are all here as as people who need support
Speaker 1: mhmm yeah mhmm so i it sounds it sounds really nice to me
Speaker 0: yeah i mean i think that would definitely help me
Speaker 1: and yeah i mean looking back at the experiences i did have with us kind of
Speaker 2: groups and communication i think that it that i did feel somewhat that i benefited from it just just i guess yeah like you said ex sharing experiences and just knowing that we're all kind of in the on the going through i guess it all in some sense together even though it may be a different situation
Speaker 1: but yes and what i would
Speaker 0: like to highlight an important aspect in that is so not that you know you or the listeners get the idea of oh so we're all wallowing kind of in a painting or something like that a a great advantage of these groups are it's confined because we you know it's a topic that we touched upon in our last conversation when i have when i am in an open context with a friend or someone that i think could become a friend i'm always worrying about am i too much am i overburdening can i you know dare to be more open or should i stay superficial all of this because it's it's an open it's an open context can could go anywhere it can become the best friendship in the world or for the next sentence you know that that i reveal something they could say that's not for me she's stupid or too much or too something right so there's a risk and this risk is heavy on the mind the mind especially if i'm insecure because then i was like should i say that should i go there should i suggest this meeting or that and the great advantage in such groups is the context is clear you know you go there it's one and a half one hour two hours of sharing whatever and then everyone goes home and yes in exceptional cases you can you know you can befriend someone there but then it has to be really clear but it gets it's i usually don't just try to befriend everyone in such a group usually it's clear we go there we share and then we leave so there's less less risk and less burden on my mind plus if it's moderated well it's relatively clear what the expectation is
Speaker 1: share
Speaker 0: this share that and then someone leads by example and then i understand kind of where the group dynamic goes and again i don't have to kind of think too much about should i say that or not because the context make it makes it clear what is in the range of the acceptable of the expected
Speaker 1: right okay i think i think the other question that's coming up for me is that and i and i wanted to kind of get your
Speaker 2: feedback or is how because as people i think we're never truly going to really understand somebody else's behavior or and how how is it that instead of taking that on and letting it affect us how can we kind of shift a way of thinking so that we can stop kind of a questioning and just have some understanding and then not understanding if that kinda makes sense
Speaker 0: can you give me an example because i didn't quite understand what you
Speaker 2: yeah like i mean just going back to like what i was saying about maybe my father not taking the five seconds to write me on facebook say happy birthday how can i just say okay i don't understand his behavior it now hurts me but i'm going to try to not understand and that's okay because i won't understand and just kind of leave it at that i mean i'm just giving an example instead of instead of like taking on having and questioning myself for weeks as to why he wouldn't do it why you know like what did i do or what kind of shitty father is he like all of these like very negative things that just at the end don't help me
Speaker 0: yes yes so this is trickier because to put it in other words you're trying to deprogram the mind to not to do something that it very readily does our mind is one part of our mind is constantly is constantly trying to calculate if i'm liked and loved by my surrounding or not like i live here in poland right and for a while i could kind of observe how part of the mind is obsessing about what do they think neighbors think about me
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: like do they see me as the weird german guy or do they like foreigners at all or like when i walk i don't speak polish right when i walk past and they say something is it comments about me all these things right and to a certain extent we cannot help but having these kind of assessments and calculations all the time because you know on a simple level we depended on it evolutionarily to to understand am i in danger in my immediate surrounding so to come to a point where i say oh i don't care fuck about what they think about me i lead my life why should i care i have to take i have to remove myself from the issue and get to a different place what i mean with that is i stop to reflect about them and what they may say and then to tell myself oh i don't care what they say i have to get to a place where i contemplate about my life and i ask myself do i want to lead a life where i depend on other people or other people's opinions or my neighbors opinions alright so i ask myself a more general question i'm i'm not directly at the issue i would be more at the issue at you know kind of in a hand to hand combat with the issue if i walk past people they say something and then i would be like no it doesn't matter what they say just go straight don't look don't make a comment don't think you know then i would be kind of in the right in the battle of things as similar as you described you think about your dad and he not sending you a message and then you would like to turn that thought off or that pain off
Speaker 2: yeah well i think i would maybe i guess if that's just too much to do and maybe find like the middle ground of how can i just like how can i maybe shift the way i am or i mean i guess i just wanted somehow not go through that whole loop of it affecting me for so long
Speaker 0: i understand
Speaker 2: and instead of just yeah instead of just being like oh i don't give a fuck because obviously i do right and trying to find a way that it's like okay well i don't know i'm never going to understand why he does a thing he does so how can i just find a way to just separate i guess is maybe
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 2: that that this is me and this is him and his behavior is his and mine his mine so yeah
Speaker 0: yes that's that's a good term to separate those two in in a weird way you know i i would offer something counterintuitive mhmm just first of all to admit myself to my to admit to myself that a part of me is really craving for his for his recognition
Speaker 1: right
Speaker 0: this is the place that i don't want to go to because this is what hurts right because i crave for his recognition this is why it hurts right so to intentionally go there again it doesn't look like something that would be helpful because i want to get away from that right
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: i would say this is important because there is when i acknowledge something that is true within myself there is a strength
Speaker 1: that comes from that let's call it the
Speaker 0: strength that comes from self honesty and there is a stability there is make a
Speaker 1: little bit of a leap here there is an aspect of self love in being able to admit to myself something difficult mhmm
Speaker 0: i'm acknowledging something that creates for recognition not only you know that the recognition that i i i would like to have from my from my father from my dad but all kinds of desires that are difficult if i have a kink or something that i'm ashamed about even from that there is a there's an act of self love if i can stand behind that or if i did something that i find difficult to admit to myself if i cheated if i stole something if i betrayed someone right something that is truly horrible and it would never kind of consciously i would like to erase that from my mind and still if i go there and admit to myself wait a minute i did that i'm ashamed of it but i did that
Speaker 1: there
Speaker 0: is an acknowledgement of this thing that is burning inside of me and there is a secondary pain from this memory of what i did because it knows that i don't like it right so if i personalize kind of this thing the shameful thing that i did let's say i stole something right even this memory wants to be recognized but this memory knows that i don't want to have anything to do with that but i would like to erase that and it cannot endure it it wants to be recognized so in a similar way when you admit to yourself when you start with right as a starting point i crave for love and for recognition from certain people and it hurts me so much that i don't get it as a starting point there is a quality in that there's a quality of truth of honesty and of bravery mhmm can can you get a sense of what i'm hinting at yeah and this i can use as a scaffolding because in order to let go this is what you have in mind right in order to have the strength to separate those two needs to see the father as a complex person that he is that he will have his reasons that he has his subjective reasons to not acknowledge me or not to reach out or to despise me or whatever i would like to have the strength to see it this way in order for the strength to be there i need some sort of foundation
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: and as this kind of radical stand of self honesty which i would argue is based on self love because i'm recognizing aspects inside of me that are difficult to recognize this can give me this can be a source of the strength mhmm now it probably doesn't suffice i you know like we spoke before it's a difficult thing to pull off so i would mostly argue for a mixed model of yes you know try find a group group of friends or find a group context do those things that you do you know the the breathing the affirmations the physical exercises in order to get strength right so that in itself this kind of radical self honesty and admitting to oneself the difficult things that are within me might not suffice to give me the strength that i need but it will be an important contribution
Speaker 1: okay
Speaker 0: so a real exercise you know if we're looking at a pragmatic level would be to actually sit down and write down the difficult things that i know i have a hard time to face
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: and to have you know an exclamation mark behind that yes yes i under i know that this is within me and i accept it for what it is for now i don't like the consequence of this i don't like the consequence that my craving for love makes me weak and makes me insecure but i see it i acknowledge it yeah so to have an actual list and to go through this and to go through the process of accepting it for as it is right now not meaning that i want to accept it as a big good thing or for the future or something i want to work on it but i start with an acknowledgement what what are the thoughts that you come that come to you
Speaker 1: of
Speaker 2: of writing down things or i
Speaker 0: don't know you you whatever thoughts you have you just wanted to comment on something
Speaker 2: oh no no no no i was just listening and to what you were saying
Speaker 0: okay
Speaker 2: yeah can you
Speaker 0: can you imagine to do something like this or do you think it's too challenging
Speaker 2: no i think i could do it mhmm and i think especially you can
Speaker 1: get another source of energy
Speaker 0: from your willingness to to change something because this is how we started our conversations when you said it's this is what i got at least from you it's kind of enough i don't want to deal with this stuff anymore yeah and that would be in a different place which to me sounds like you are willing to to look at yourself even in this you know unromantic way and to have this sober assessment of where your head space is
Speaker 2: yeah i think that maybe up to this point i mean i'm i'm just kinda skimming my memory but it's been maybe the things that i've been writing down or journaling have been about maybe affirmations are such about how i'm strong how mhmm you know i i can deal or i'm not i can deal that to just let things kind of be as they occur and to kind of accept and maybe as i'm i've been listening to what you're saying and so i have to really sit down and be like and and sit down and really look at the inner inner i guess the inner void i don't
Speaker 1: know if that's the term but just just maybe just be like
Speaker 2: well in some sense maybe i i do feel weak in this no yes and that's okay yes
Speaker 0: for me there's a really dramatic difference i mean you know for some people the affirmations work i don't doubt that but what is missing for me in that is if i was the if i am the voice of shame within me right i i kind of i again i an entrepreneur anthropomorphize it right and i
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: i assume it's a being within me for the sake of simplicity i am the same and then i see my my master you know my boss saying i want to be just good or i want to be proud of what i do or something like that my sense of that hi what about me and the response would be like what about you you're a piece of shit i don't want you in my system
Speaker 1: mhmm
Speaker 0: so i'm without knowing it without wanting it by only focusing on the positive only focusing on the affirmations there is an implicit rejection of so many hearts within me yeah and rejection is the thing that i'm already suffering from mhmm right and here to start with okay everyone gather around what do we have i am proud of the things that i've done of the good that i slowly brought into my life and i'm still ashamed of the bad things that i've done
Speaker 1: right
Speaker 0: and i'm sad for my vulnerability when it comes to other people even though i would like to be so strong but it pains me that i want to reach out to people and i can't and when i you know in this manner to collect all of those voices and then i feel how all of these voices are heard and then there's the can let go because they are acknowledged mhmm
Speaker 1: they're ready to say okay now that i've been heard
Speaker 0: i'm ready to move with a team to another shore let's work towards self reliance you know positivity and so on does that intuitively make sense to you
Speaker 2: yeah i think that yeah it makes sense i think maybe at some points in my life or i've been truly truly depressed and i needed to kind of really build myself up and the i think the pos looking at the positive things and doing the positive affirmations have really helped
Speaker 0: yes
Speaker 2: to kind of lift my energy and my spirit and and bring me to a place where you know i can function yeah but i think i am at that place now where i don't that's i don't have that same experience of being truly depressed or truly i think it's more coming i think now it's kinda shifting the sense that i have to kind of look at the inner pain so that i'm able to kind of heal that so so that so that i can start feeling these kind of positive things as as as a daily daily i guess routine something normal because i do i i do understand that if you're not in the position to really look at that negative because you're not you know you're you're not feeling good it can bring you down into a darker place and so i think yeah i think
Speaker 1: it's i think it will be helpful to to start looking at all of this
Speaker 2: that really inner hurts to kinda start healing those things
Speaker 1: so
Speaker 2: because maybe the positive affirmations aren't helping so much right now because there's other other work that i need to do yeah and i like
Speaker 0: what you said that there was a time when they really had that purpose and they worked for you right to help
Speaker 1: you up
Speaker 2: definitely
Speaker 0: yes that's important to keep in mind
Speaker 1: mhmm mhmm
Speaker 2: i mean i'm sure it will be i will have to kind of blend both things i mean looking at the at the heart is is hard so the the positive affirmations and keeping that in the in the i guess in the front line will will help too so
Speaker 1: mhmm yeah and to add another you know perspective on this
Speaker 0: when you do this and you you look at all those different voices within you and you acknowledge them isn't that what you hope others who love you would do for you or to put it differently isn't that what you what you asked about in the beginning how can i be more self self reliant and less dependent on other people if you can show those this kind of self love towards yourself those those parts that you intuitively would like to get rid of that you're ashamed of that you're not proud of at least for me this is something that when i think of an ideal person to love me these are the things that they would accept and i could let myself just fall and you know just think thank you you know for being so just accepting and non judgmental
Speaker 1: right i mean
Speaker 0: i can give this to myself isn't that you know major step towards a an independence to towards a place where i understand i don't you other i don't need you other person you know be it my dad be it a friend i don't need you anymore to accept me because i accept myself in a much more radical way than anyone else could and then i guarantee you because this is how the mind works it doesn't stop there sometimes people are worried what happens if i if i accept you know kind of thing that i'm not proud of doesn't it mean that i'm okay with it and nothing changes this is not how it works because with acceptance there is a changing dynamic that happens something shifts within me when something difficult is accepted and embraced and it leads to something more fulfilling to a better feeling with myself and so on it's not static
Speaker 2: yeah i mean i'm already kind of feeling that mhmm instead of having having that recognition not recognition what's the word i'm thinking of like comp like comprending
Speaker 1: understanding yes what of the sense of acknowledging all of
Speaker 2: these things and accepting is already in some sense making me feel lighter and giving me some clarity as to yeah that it's okay to
Speaker 1: just feel these things or i don't know i don't
Speaker 2: know if i'm explaining very well but
Speaker 1: yeah i i understand and i think it will it will be something i mean
Speaker 2: that i definitely the next step in and my own self work that i needs to do
Speaker 0: yeah i'm very
Speaker 1: glad okay
Speaker 0: if you don't mind why don't you give me an us for the end of this session a kind of a review of the three sessions that we had kind of knowing that it's a super short period of time you know and it's kind of the constraint of of of knowing that it's a recording and so on but leaving that aside how was what was kind of the effect of these conversations what how did you use them for yourself to to again use the motivation that you have for self change and to to morph it into something else
Speaker 1: that's
Speaker 2: kind of a difficult question for me because i think that normally
Speaker 1: for me when i really when i'm when i really wanna do deep work and i really wanna look
Speaker 2: at i guess at the this other side of me that i really that i really need i really want to kind of improve on in in a sense because i wanna feel better i have to be in a in a state where i'm in a comfortable environment where i'm not comfortable place in my life in general and since we started a conversation my life has been constant a bit of chaos yeah and so i think i've been kinda skimming like just kind of thinking about our conversations but i haven't really
Speaker 1: been able to go fully deep into
Speaker 2: into really what i think this work involves but i think the
Speaker 1: i think that i'm
Speaker 2: soon going to be in a place where i will be able to be in a in a more comfortable environment for myself that i will definitely go back and rethink and start putting into place all of these things that i need to do i mean i understand that it's it's a longer process and it's not something that i that's not can change after three sessions but i think that definitely today i i think has really helped me kind of look at the next steps of what i need to do to kind of evolve in in this i guess self self acknowledgment of the entire being and
Speaker 1: not just one of the one of
Speaker 2: the beings i guess yes
Speaker 1: what else i mean i think also as
Speaker 2: much as i've tried to forget that you know at the end this is gonna be it is something that's gonna be heard that somewhat has been on the back of my mind so maybe i don't know it's just a different kind of situation than just being you know with someone speaking with someone one on one
Speaker 0: yes
Speaker 2: and maybe i think that's also why i have to kinda just sit down and and really reflect on our three sessions and kind of like think about our conversations and on i guess on my own and and yeah
Speaker 1: well but i i'm definitely i think excited about this new kind of tool
Speaker 2: yeah yeah i'm i'm
Speaker 1: i'm really grateful for your honesty and also to engage as you said in a life
Speaker 0: situation where you have many things going on and it would you know technically not be the ideal place but you know what i like about it is that this is life and sometimes you know people engage and or they have to do self development not under the best circumstances and it's just a glimpse of that so kind of for me it's there's something very real about that that we we sometimes have to be in these processes and then to remind ourselves to revisit it in order to go deeper when we have more time and so on so even though i would also wish it for yourself that circumstances would be easier but it's also very real yeah and that's also something that i i you know felt in those conversations with you all the time that you were very you really tried to to connect with yourself and with me under this circumstances and to to yeah to have an honest encounter and i value that a lot
Speaker 2: yeah i mean i i did try and samsung to say okay this hour is just for me you know
Speaker 1: and leave kind of everything else a
Speaker 2: bit on the sidelines and just be like that i will have to come back to but try to just focus on this one hour it's just one hour and it's and it's for me you know yes so i mean it's not easy definitely not my mind has been going on on an you know on and on about the million things i should be doing and i'm quite fidgety but i'm i'm actually really proud that i just didn't get up and start walking around or whatever i don't know mhmm that i would do you know because it's some sense it is a bit of i don't know it could be the discomfort of just having to speak about these things and or you know or multitasking sometimes is just it's like a safety net because not ideally focusing on one thing but i think yeah i i have to i have to acknowledge that the three sessions i did sit calmly and so and i did really try to give you know all of my myself because i i do really want to yeah i get a self developed and just a ten cents be a better person for me and
Speaker 0: yeah
Speaker 1: yeah
Speaker 0: okay thank you so much i wish you all the best
Speaker 2: thank you thanks

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